A Chastity Framework

Alright, perhaps “matrix” isn’t the precise word; I’m just musing out loud. I’ve been pondering this recently and observing that we frequently use the term “chastity,” even though there are several facets we appear to appreciate. For instance, some men seem to like the control element; it’s not that they dislike having an orgasm - they do want one - but they enjoy the concept of it being randomized, earned, or decided by their partner. Other guys lean more toward denial; they can go weeks or even months without ejaculating and still derive satisfaction from giving pleasure to their partner. Or they find joy in the denial itself, perhaps riding the wave of endorphins. I also notice that many of us (and this is a self-selected crowd) favor devices with varying degrees of security, while others are perfectly happy using willpower alone without any device. Mrs Edge and I have shifted from enjoying her control over my orgasms (regarding timing and method) to something slightly different lately. Previously, we alternated between long periods with the device on or off, or used it intermittently; now we use the device more consistently with regular unlockings. Currently, it seems both of us are thriving in long-term denial, aided by the cage which is worn almost constantly (except for hygiene checks, medical needs, and air travel). I suppose I’ve been observing how we have varied our approach and started viewing it as a matrix. I welcome any thoughts - is this just idle curiosity, or does examining this create value in helping define what works for us?

I'm new here and already into my fourth week caged. I've been wondering about and questioning my feelings regarding the need to orgasm. In that first week, I was permitted three orgasms, but one in the middle where I sort of ruined it by trying too hard not to finish quickly. Right now, I really want to, yet a part of me hesitates because I don't want to 'reset' emotionally. So yes, I feel torn.

This is an interesting idea. There is certainly some interplay between the categories. I primarily like the control aspect, which necessarily involves enjoying denial on some level. While denial isn’t the desired end for me, I do dread the post orgasm drop and associated diminished submissive feelings. It can feel anticlimactic and drab, but not so much that I want to be constantly denied. Device or no device can reflect the degree of control and/or denial (e.g. limited arousal v. limited orgasm). The degree of security needed seems inversely proportional to the desire to be controlled and/or denied. I have a high desire for both, and accordingly have a snug device that I could still get out of if I so desired. Even in my most desperate moments, I haven’t contemplated violating my KH’s trust. But if my desire was low, that likely wouldn’t be a concern. So yes, a 4 or 6 axis chart may make sense.

I don't know how you create it, but I'm in. I will be coming up on a year locked in July. I only get out when wife wants me. That can be frequent or infrequent depending on life. I love the feeling of frustration from being locked. I love the tease and denial. Not into being sissy sub, she still wants me to be a man....think caged beast. A lot of excitement when you open the cage and let the beast out. Okay, a six inch beast but you get the point. 😏

So, I guess the first matrix vector would be Time, because that tends to be what most of us are concerned with. How long between orgasms. Another vector would be locked vs unlocked - that is, are you locked full time, part time, once in a while, etc. Orgasm control (i.e., allowed under supervision or permission) vs orgasm denial (fewer or none, with permission only, etc) Anything else?

I think there should also be a vector for orgasm desire and if one suffers a letdown after orgasm Just my opinion

> Devoted2Her wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:31 pm > I think there should also be a vector for orgasm desire and if one suffers a letdown after orgasm Okay, that's a condition that I hadn't considered. I guess I was thinking about it in terms of how people approach it.

@Tom Allen I think that is a part of how people approach it and how the approach may change after reality sets in.

You wrote about control va denial at one point, Tom, and what you wrote then made sense to me: Control involves a device, the direct exertion of control; denial may not, here the direct control is in the hands of the denied party, and the kink is about refraining from orgasm regardless. The way you have it in this post, you already have time, and you have the frequency of using a device, and I’m not understanding how you are using control vs denial in this one. Control is shorter periods between orgasms, denial longer? Isn’t that captured by time?

I may have a “dimension” to add: frequency of genital stimulation / teasing. Is the couple looking to give the denied party genital pleasure rarely, or frequently? I’ve read accounts of people who may go weeks or months without genital stimulation. Usually caged. And my own experience is the opposite: I am teased every time we have sex, and I orgasm every few months.

I didn't really have anything in mind here. I guess I started thinking in very general terms when I saw some discussions on the use of the term "permanent chastity," and how some people were disagreeing on it. For example, some people use the term permanent to mean that they are always locked up, although they may be let out for frequent teasing or orgasms (for some value of "frequent"). Others insisted that the term should apply more to the idea of denial; that is, if you're in permanent chastity, then the cage never should come off. Those conversations usually devolve into a dick-measuring contest of who wears their hunk of metal the longest or most consistently. I guess I was hoping to come up with a better way to describe the chastity/denial concept by describing it along several axes or dimensions or something.

@Tom Allen Like everything else in life the same labels, ideas and concepts mean a multitude of things to different people. My adventure is mine, yours is yours, no less real for either one of us and although their are commonalities the differences are what make it work for all of us individually. I just hope we don't faction up and decide to exclude based on how or why and bring judgement into the equation. People tend to do that here in the good ole USA

> I just hope we don't faction up and decide to exclude based on how or why and bring judgement into the equation. You must be new to the internet.;-)

@Tom Allen .... HA HA ..... I say that because of the Internet! 😎

This is fascinating, and perhaps getting a bit like Myers Briggs. It could be useful because it would encourage people to ask *why chastity*, before plunging in with advice about protocol and keyholding. The biggest either/or I perceive is About Unlocking/About Being Locked In the most visible form of our fetish, the point of chastity is the unlocking: somebody or something controls it. In a relationship the keyholder may use chastity as leverage, or for effectively extreme flirting, but the either way, the lockee is focused on his eventual release. However, for a lot of wearers, especially couples (and I suspect, secretly for many keyholders), and of course for some trans folk, chastity is about being locked. It's body modification lite. There's no real drive on either party to unlock except for practical or health reasons.

> The biggest either/or I perceive is About Unlocking/About Being Locked This ties into my thoughts that some people are in it for the control, while others seem to be in it for the denial. Again, I may be approaching this the wrong way, this is really thinking aloud.

Good point, and —- denial of what? Genital pleasure? Orgasm? Which is to say, that also varies.

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:08 am > > The biggest either/or I perceive is About Unlocking/About Being Locked > This ties into my thoughts that some people are in it for the control, while others seem to be in it for the denial. > Again, I may be approaching this the wrong way, this is really thinking aloud. Oh I see where you're (not:D ) coming from! I don't *feel *like I'm subject to denial, because it's not about, "LOL you can't come." However, if denial is a spectrum, then, yes, we are on the extreme end of it.

I think there are so many vectors one could consider that there's little danger of "factioning up" since we'd all pretty much find ourselves in factions of one person:-) I've come to the view that chastity is a more wide-ranging fetish than most, but with a couple of "anchor points", if you will, that do create commonality (though even these aren't 100% applicable). The first of these is orgasm denial to varying degrees, otherwise the term "chastity" would be inapplicable and we'd be calling ourselves something else. This is separate to sexual activity including PIV (or indeed PI whatever orifice suits one). The range seems to be rather fewer orgasms than if not involved, to permanent denial. Second is control of our genitals in one form or another, more often by caging but also by self-control. A keyholder is either employed or, if not, is usually much missed and desired. This control can also be more wide-ranging and can move into other aspects of daily life (as in my own case where performing chores and other tasks while naked is part of it for me). Third is gender. We are overwhelmingly male for some reason and female participation is usually as keyholder or in another role of control. Further, females generally participate at our request (often after much effort and persuasion). Talking to my wife, while she enjoys being my keyholder and having control, if I stopped tomorrow she'd be cool with that (except for the chores). Plus, the idea of opting out of her own orgasms deffo doesn't appeal to her. Fourth is age. Most of us are pretty mature (at least in terms of years lol). While when young I never knew this kink even existed, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have appealed to me then. For me personally, chastity works on two levels in that orgasm denial is really my thing, but also because it works well with my other fetishes and kinks, which are all linked with sexual submissiveness.

I like how you're fleshing this out a bit.

> The first of these is orgasm denial to varying degrees, otherwise the term "chastity" would be inapplicable and we'd be calling ourselves something else. I actually think it’s hilarious that the kink is called “chastity”, when the behavior is anything but chaste. I’m cool with it, I just think it’s funny. “Chastity” is as I understand it originally a Roman Catholic term and means to behave according to the sexual mores of the Church. When married, that means having unprotected sex with one’s spouse, without birth control. When not married, that means being continent, that is, not having sex at all. Any kind of kinky play is definitely not chaste;). Nor is masturbation. The Church is a bit uptight that way.

I've been saying for years that "chastity devices" are mislabeled sex toys.

> CagedKC wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:30 pm > ... she still wants me to be a man....think caged beast. A lot of excitement when you open the cage and let the beast out. 😏 Same here - her words exactly.

> jfenoffti wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:23 am > > CagedKC wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:30 pm > > ... she still wants me to be a man....think caged beast. A lot of excitement when you open the cage and let the beast out. 😏 > Same here - her words exactly. That's me! I like controlling a man, keeping that big boy under lock and key, all mine for when I want him.:)

I like where Steve2059 went with it. It’s similar to my feelings on it. I think of my sex life (and all of my desires and processes) as one sheet of paper that exists by itself. It is always there. Sometimes, another sheet gets laid in top, called denial. The first sheet shod still be there, but under the filter? of denial. And then a third sheet can be laid down, called chastity. Again, the first two sheets are still there. Without the base sheets, the upper sheets don’t work. I guess denial and chastity are like filters applied to my sexuality. Modifiers, but not bases. That makes less sense to me typed out, lol.

OK so suppose there are main streams of male chastity, probably harmonious with the baseline sexuality of the wearer and hopefully his partner: Hard Chastity - basically castration lite. "What penis?" Flirty Chastity - all about the tease and denial and ruined orgasms. Champagne Cork Chastity - all about unlocking to unleash that pent up manly desire. Sissy Chastity - all about the transformation and the shifting of erotic satisfaction to anal pleasures.

That’s awesome. I want to be somewhere between Hard and Flirty. ... and that’s a dirty sentence.

I made a matrix once in Excel and tried to track two dimensions. I created it late 2008 when I first stumble on Thumper’s blog (as another rabbit into chastity). I had it password locked and forgot the password, so now I’m in permanent denial of that spreadsheet.:) Now I think of different aspects of chastity. One dimension is the standard sequence of male masturbation of their penis. Orgasm Denial Emission Denial Edging Denial Masturbation Denial Erection Denial Besides events, you can count durations: One can measure the *past* time denied. One can count down to a future finite time. One can agree for an indefinite time duration. One can assert intent for a permanent state. Second, besides being denied, you can “merely” be controlled You can have all your orgasms, emissions, edges, masturbation and erections controlled. Third, the method how... Hands free / mental Your own touch, self and uncontrolled Your own touch, but partner guided / supervised Partner’s: hand, mouth, pussy, ass, cock, word... There’s more dimensions but I’ll stop here. For example, I’ve been under self masturbation and self orgasm control since 2014. I’m two years into a vow to make her control permanent. I’m struggling with stricter no touch rules recently. But I’ve only had my erections controlled and denied by chastity for just 19 days straight. Regardless of device I’ve had orgasms denied 88 days.

Something that popped in my head the other day, is that when Mrs Edge closes the lock, the device is locked on and stays on. She doesn't take me out to "play with me," or say:Well, maybe I'll let you come next week," or anything like that. So for us, enforced chastity is synonymous with orgasm denial. Obviously, other couples handle it differently.

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:52 amObviously, other couples handle it differently. and with some couples, it doesn't get handled at all.;)

> and with some couples, it doesn't get handled at all Image

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:37 am > I guess I started thinking in very general terms when I saw some discussions on the use of the term "permanent chastity," and how some people were disagreeing on it. "Permanent" requires some personal definition of the "foreseeable future." For many, the future is a week out when the next paycheck arrives. Perhaps living day to day. Thinking in terms of months, or years, or decades is unlikely. A week or month may rightfully be perceived as permanent. I tend to think of our chastity practice as "Full Time." Much like a full time employee, you still get breaks and agreed upon vacations. Otherwise, the lock is on, and under strict control. Xileh

> peter_rabbit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:29 am > I made a matrix once ... to track two dimensions. > Now I think of different aspects of chastity. > One dimension is the standard sequence of male masturbation of their penis. > Orgasm Denial > Emission Denial > Edging Denial > Masturbation Denial > Erection Denial > Besides events, you can count durations: > One can measure the *past* time denied. > One can count down to a future finite time. > One can agree for an indefinite time duration. > One can assert intent for a permanent state. > Second, besides being denied, you can “merely” be controlled > You can have all your orgasms, emissions, edges, masturbation and erections controlled. > Third, the method how... > Hands free / mental > Your own touch, self and uncontrolled > Your own touch, but partner guided / supervised > Partner’s: hand, mouth, pussy, ass, cock, word... > There’s more dimensions but I’ll stop here. And that class, will be your 2nd lesson in Statistical Analysis. There will be a "pop quiz" so take notes.

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:52 am > ... when Mrs Edge closes the lock, the device is locked on and stays on. She doesn't take me out to "play with me," or say:Well, maybe I'll let you come next week," or anything like that. So for us, enforced chastity is synonymous with orgasm denial. Is Mrs Edge my wife's sister? My wife would lock, pat and smile. End of story.

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:52 am > ... when Mrs Edge closes the lock, the device is locked on and stays on. She doesn't take me out to "play with me," or say:Well, maybe I'll let you come next week," or anything like that. So for us, enforced chastity is synonymous with orgasm denial. My wife has become less vanilla over the years and now acts similarly. My last two periods of confinement lasted 61 days each, with me locked continuously around the clock. Currently on day 13 of this latest one, I anticipate it will stretch to at least two months. The only rule is that I never get a say in when it ends.

There is another dimension here that differs slightly from simple orgasm denial and emission denial. I have come to realize this aspect matters more to me than either of those... It is the need to avoid the "downer" feeling that follows an orgasm. If my wife, who holds the key, signals she wants penetrative sex while I feel the usual urge for it, I actually dread it. It feels far more intense than any sensation from being denied up until that moment, whether those weeks or months have passed quickly or slowly. The worry is losing that ongoing state of arousal which denial provides. Even though my libido remains strong and I still enjoy physical intimacy, the constant high of not climaxing is so pleasant that I do not wish to lose it. Once an orgasm happens, after its short peak passes, the subsequent drop in mood is something I now actively want to sidestep, particularly because recovering that euphoric state can take days or often weeks. (The issue for me is that if my wife wants anything sexual (or even non-sexual) given our many years of a chastity dynamic, I find it nearly impossible to say no!) To my mind, this persistent arousal level holds greater significance than the denial itself. (Even though I still crave sex generally, I do not crave orgasms quite as much.)

> The fear is of losing that continual state of arousal that being denied gives you. While I still have a very strong sex drive and enjoy physical sex, the continual constant high from not having orgasmed is so good I don't want to lose it. When I do orgasm, once it's brief high is over the resulting low is something I now really want to avoid, especially as it takes days and more often weeks to get back to the euphoric state. I completely understand this point. Sometimes, I even worry that an orgasm while caged might ruin that feeling; however, so far, I am able to recover and function normally within a couple of hours.

> Tom Allen wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:26 am > > The fear is of losing that continual state of arousal that being denied gives you. While I still have a very strong sex drive and enjoy physical sex, the continual constant high from not having orgasmed is so good I don't want to lose it. When I do orgasm, once it's brief high is over the resulting low is something I now really want to avoid, especially as it takes days and more often weeks to get back to the euphoric state. > I totally get this. At times, I'm even worried that a caged orgasm will spoil that feeling; although so far, I'm back up and operating within an hour or two. My wife has actually complained that my expression shows disappointment when she grants me permission to climax. This is one of the things I need to improve for our benefit. For myself, I believe this stems from having had long gaps between our "playing" sessions in the past; now I am learning to focus on knowing we will likely play again soon or immediately, and that I should simply enjoy both the orgasm and the break.